> They're treating these young doctors like it's Hell Week in a fraternity, and the main excuse you'll get from the AMA is because that's what they (the older doctors) did so all of this fanfare is a right of passage towards full membership (attending physician) which unlocks all of these riches to justify sacrificing your youth for.
For the sake of nipping generational warfare in the bud...
My father runs a oncology fellowship. There are laws that prevent them from doing to our generation what was done to them. In addition, they don't want was done to them to be done to us. It doesn't benefit patients, increases drop out rates, and (especially in my father's field) drastically increases suicide risk and physician counseling costs. My father is currently 67, working 80 hours per week. He's not protected by those laws so he ends up covering for those hours that no longer fit the old formula, which means he did it both as a youth and in his 50s and 60s. There is a ton to crucify their generation for, but I really don't think this one is it.
> What I'm trying to get at is this feels like the kind of thing a propaganda outlet would do to give you a false enemy to hate
Once you account for hours worked, time spent in the workforce, and debt accumulated to achieve their income, a doctor will only have a 10-20% boost in lifetime earnings compared to a UPS driver. People seem to conflate income and wealth, which is a TERRIBLE fallacy to fall into. For some personal numbers, my father's income is double mine. Once you've adjusted for the those aspects I mentioned above, I'll have earned 80% more than him in my career.
Rules in place by the ACGME are laughable, no one respects duty hours and a certain residency program I may or may not have participated in told us to lie about our duty hours so not to get the program in trouble. From my experience the worst offenders tend to be older attendings who do not respect duty hours and will round on your post-call day at noon meaning you have been at the hospital for 30+ hours before you can give sign out.
> Once you account for hours worked, time spent in the workforce, and debt accumulated to achieve their income, a doctor will only have a 10-20% boost in lifetime earnings compared to a UPS driver.
Do you have any reference to back that up? Not doubting it. Just curious.
I did this math when I was 27 and wanted to leave programming to enter medicine. When I realized I wouldn’t come ahead financially until near retirement (and that was assuming I’d make a lot less in programming than I actually have) I decided to pass. It didn’t matter what specialty I picked except a few like plastic surgery or dermatology and there’s no guarantee of getting a residency in those. That’s also not considering that extreme hours worked in medicine and the loss of your youth. My spreadsheet also didn’t account for the fact I’m making mid-six figures in programming already at my mid thirties (!!)
Medicine is not a place to go to become rich. If you already have the brains and aptitude to overachieve in medicine you can succeed elsewhere even more greatly AND retire younger.
Base salary is low-six figures. I work at [insert deca-unicorn here] and a lot of that comp is locked inside non-public stock (I've been here a long time), so it could go to $0... or it could be enough to retire on. That's just the nominal risk-adjusted value of my compensation. Even assuming my stock is worth $0, just my base salary puts me ahead of going into medicine. The only way going into medicine makes financial sense over programming is if you fast track your way into it from high school and end up in a lucrative specialty, and even then it doesn't come that far ahead. Given the loss of your entire youth, I'd say it comes out even at best, unless medicine is a natural passion of yours.
I think that factoid comes from that shitty graph where the suppose that the UPS driver starts working straight at the moment they turn 18 and they will have maximum pay rate that is available for the UPS driver position.
While in reality, the average wait time to become a driver from loading is 11 years. During that time you make about $13/hr part time where the schedule can be horrible and you could work less than 15 hours a week.
When you do become a driver it takes another ~2 years (on avg) to get your own route until then you are a part time worker and your hours worked will fluctuate a lot over the year. The first year is paid at 17.50-18.50/hr (~$36,000/yr @ 40 hours a week) and then goes up.
> they turn 18 and they will have maximum pay rate that is available for the UPS driver position.
That's not the assumption. It's that they receive median pay their entire career, which would be reasonable if they never left their job. Getting paid 60, 70, and 80 over a 3 year period is the same as working three years at 70 ignoring inflation and investments. That's the assumption
> While in reality, the average wait time to become a driver from loading is 11 years.
Then compare it to the countless other blue collar trade skills that don't require any educational debt. The point continues to stand unless you want to focus on the example rather than the concept.
I ran the numbers recently and the numbers were even more grim, but I'd need to track down all my sources again.
I just think the main point is that income is not the number to focus on. Wealth is the end result of the equation, and income is only one part of that.
He doesn't have a reference because it's nonsensical.
Say it takes you 15 extra years to get into the workforce over a UPS driver, that you're saddled with $400k of debt and that UPS driver is the highest compensated driver in history at $100k.
$350k over 30 years is $10,500,000 - $400k = $10.1MM
For the sake of nipping generational warfare in the bud...
My father runs a oncology fellowship. There are laws that prevent them from doing to our generation what was done to them. In addition, they don't want was done to them to be done to us. It doesn't benefit patients, increases drop out rates, and (especially in my father's field) drastically increases suicide risk and physician counseling costs. My father is currently 67, working 80 hours per week. He's not protected by those laws so he ends up covering for those hours that no longer fit the old formula, which means he did it both as a youth and in his 50s and 60s. There is a ton to crucify their generation for, but I really don't think this one is it.
> What I'm trying to get at is this feels like the kind of thing a propaganda outlet would do to give you a false enemy to hate
Once you account for hours worked, time spent in the workforce, and debt accumulated to achieve their income, a doctor will only have a 10-20% boost in lifetime earnings compared to a UPS driver. People seem to conflate income and wealth, which is a TERRIBLE fallacy to fall into. For some personal numbers, my father's income is double mine. Once you've adjusted for the those aspects I mentioned above, I'll have earned 80% more than him in my career.